Mesaj necititde Metamorfoza » 16 Aug 2012, 16:02
De exemplu sunt unele versete pe care Iudaismul nu le considera mesianice sau ca se refera la Mesia, desi in unele interpretari iudaice ele apar ca fiind Mesianice..
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
This verse points out the inescapable fact that the Messiah is God Almighty appearing in human form. That this passage was considered Messianic is evident from the fact that verse7 says that the Child would sit on the throne of David forever, a description which only fits the Messiah.
In the Targum of Isaiah we read: "His name has been called from old, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, He who lives forever, the Anointed One (Messiah), in whose days peace shall increase upon us."
Pereq Shalom: R. Yose the Galilean said: "The name of the Messiah is Peace, for it is said, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Midrash Mishle, S. Buber edition: The Messiah is called by eight names: Yinnon, Tzemah, Pele ["Miracle"], Yo'etz ["Counselor"], Mashiah ["Messiah"], El ["God"], Gibbor ["Hero"], and Avi 'Ad Shalom ["Eternal Father of Peace"]
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Jeremiah 23:5-6 'The days are coming,' declares the Lord, 'When I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a king who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In His days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which He will be called; The Lord our Righteousness (YHVH Tseidkeynu).'
The Targums concluded that this passage was speaking of Messiah.
For instance, the great Rabbi David Kimchi wrote in reference to this verse, 'By the righteous Branch is meant Messiah.' The compilers of the Targum agreed with Kimchi since they introduced Messiah by name in this passage. (David Baron, Rays of Messiah’s Glory: Christ in the Old Testament [Grand Rapids, MI; Zondervan, 1886], p. 78)
Hebrew scholar Alfred Edersheim quotes other Rabbinic writings in reference to this passage:
On Jer. xxiii, 5, 6 the Targum has it: ‘And I will raise up for David the Messiah the just.’ This is one of the passages from which, according to Rabbinic views, one of the names of the Messiah is derived, viz.: Jehovah our Righteousness. So in the Talmud (Babha Bathra 75b), in the Midrash on Ps. xxii.1, Prov.xix.21, and in that on Lamentations I 16. (Edersheim, Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah [Grand Rapids, MI; Eerdmans, 1972], pt. 2, p. 731).
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Psalm 2:7-8 "I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: He said to me, 'You are My Son; Today I have begotten thee. Ask of me and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.' "
The above passage tells us that the Messiah would be the Son of God.
This fact is also related in the Talmud, Sukkah 52a, Soncino translation:
"Our Rabbis taught, the Holy One blessed be He, will say to the Messiah, the Son of David (may He reveal Himself speedily in our days), 'Ask of Me and I will give to Thee,' as it is said [Psalm 2:7-8]: 'I will tell of the decree; the Lord hath said unto Me, "Thou art My Son; This day I have begotten Thee, ask of Me and I will give the nations for thy inheritance." ' "
The Midrash reaffirms the view that Messiah is God’s Son when commenting on another messianic Psalm:
Rabbi Nathan said that God spoke to Israel saying, ‘As I made Jacob firstborn, for it is written Israel is My son, even My firstborn" (Exodus 4:22), So also will I make Messiah My firstborn as it is written, " I will make Him My firstborn.’ (Commentary on Psalm 89:27 taken from Midrash Rabbah Shebot )
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Micah 5:1 "But thou Bethlehem Ephratha, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall One come forth unto Me that is to be Ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from old, from Ancient of Days."
This verse emphatically states that Messiah would be born in Bethlehem while also having been existing from eternity.
The Targum Jonathan (second century A. D.) :
And You Bethlehem Ephrath, you who were too small to be numbered among the thousands of the house of Judah, From you shall come forth before Me The Messiah, to exercise dominion over Israel, He whose name was mentioned from before, from the Days of Creation.
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Rabbi R. Elyyah de Vidas sights, “The meaning of ‘he was wounded for our transgressions, ... bruised for our iniquities’ is, that since the Messiah bears our iniquities, which produce the effect of His being bruised, it follows that whoever will not admit that the Messiah suffers for our iniquities must endure and suffer for themselves.”
Ninth century poet, Eliazer Hakalir, paraphrases Isaiah 53 in a prayer that comprises a part of some Jewish sects’ traditional liturgical prayers recited on Yom Kippur (the Jewish Day of Atonement). The prayer begins: “We are shrunk up in our misery even until now! Our Rock hath not come nigh to us; Messiah our righteousness, hath turned from us; we are in terror, and there is none to justify us! Our iniquities and the yoke of our transgressions He will bear, for He was wounded for our transgressions; He will carry our sins upon His shoulder, that we may find forgiveness for our iniquities; and by his strips we are healed ...” (Baron, Rays of Messiah’s Glory, pp. 225-230)
Midrash Tanhuma and Yalkut, vol. 2, par. 338 on Isaiah 52:13 states that the expressions "exalted, and extolled and be very high" indicates that, “Messiah shall be more exalted than Abraham... more extolled than Moses... and be very high; that is higher than the ministering angels...”
This again demonstrates that Isaiah 52:13-53:12 was viewed by rabbis as a messianic prophecy.
Also: “… the weight of Jewish authority preponderates in favor of the Messianic interpretation of this chapter… that until recent times this prophecy has been almost universally received by Jews as referring to Messiah is evident from Targum Jonathan who introduces Messiah by name in chp. LII.13; from the Talmud (Sanhedrin vol. 98b); and from the Zohar... In fact, until Rabbi Rashi [Rabbi Solomon Izaak (1040-1105)], considered the originator of the modern school of Jewish interpretation], who applied it to the Jewish nation, the Messianic interpretation of this chapter was almost universally adopted by Jews..." (Baron, Rays of Messiahs Glory, pp. 225-229)
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Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Israel a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look to Me, the One they have pierced, and mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child and grieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn Son."
An astonishing prophecy indeed! God claims that they will personally pierce Him. Yet, at the same time God refers to the pierced One as someone that is personally distinct from Him for whom the nations mourn and weep as for a firstborn Son.
This prophecy is confirmed by the Rabbis to be referring to the other “Messiah” which the Talmud calls Messiah Ben Joseph, the suffering Messiah. (T.V. Moore, Zechariah, Haggai and Malachi [Carlisle, PA; Banner of Truth Trust, 1974], p.199)
Edersheim states that this prophecy “is applied to the Messiah the son of Joseph in the Talmud (Sukk.52a) and so is verse 12…” (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, [one volume edition], p.737)
T.V. Moore substantiates Edersheim’s statement by declaring: “… the later interpreters explaining it of Messiah Ben Joseph, or the suffering Messiah, whom they invented to meet the passages of Scripture that speak so clearly of this characteristic (i.e.,… the sufferings) of the promised redeemer. But as they believed that this Messiah son of Joseph was a mere man, the difficulty met them that Jehovah declared ‘they shall look on ME whom they have pierced’, so that if it refers to the Messiah he cannot be a mere man, but must be divine.” (Ibid., pp.199-200)
Rabbi Moshe Alshekh also confirms the messianic overtones of this prophecy:
“I will do yet a thing, and that is, that ‘they shall look unto me for they shall lift up their eyes unto me in perfect repentance, when they see Him whom they have pierced’, that is Messiah, the son of Joseph; for our Rabbis, of blessed memory, have said that He will take upon Himself all the guilt of Israel, and shall then be slain in the war to make atonement in such manner that it shall be accounted as if Israel had pierced Him, for on account of their sin He has died; and therefore, in order that it may be reckoned to them as a perfect atonement, they will repent and look to the blessed One, saying, that there is none beside Him to forgive those that mourn on account of Him who died for their sin: this is the meaning of ‘they shall look upon me.’” (Schwarz, “Dear Rabbi,” p.10)
s.a.m.d..
De fapt toate versetele pe care si crestinii le iau drept mesianice, despre suferinta lui Iisus..
De fapt Talmudul e un ghiveci de idei.. Ai sa gasesti 3 pareri la 2 Rabini sau 33 pareri la 2 Rabini dupa cum spunea cineva..
Iar diferentele la unele texte/traduceri ale VT cred ca le cunosti..
Citatele alea in engleza ti le-am dat ca sa iti arat ce crede religia ta in momentele ei de sinceritate... Stii cum e omul minte minte , minte pe altii se minte pe sine dar apar anumite momente in viata sa cand nu mai poate si trebuie sa fie sincer asa se intampla si cu spurcatii jidovi.. Religia ta e 0. Tu esti un cretinel ratat irational.Din punctul meu de vedere conversatia a luat sfarsit, e doar o pierdere de vreme cu un prost.